3R Survey Log

reminder to write more!

drove truck out Negro Hollow route

walked up from Stover Gap Rd

Continuing the previous day’s adventure…

At Vince’s suggestion, we started by heading south on Stony Run Rd from the Whetstone Gap 4-way intersection. A bit south, we noticed pretty obvious remains of a splash dam next to Winkleblech Camp. Nearby we detected a suspicious grade curving off the road to the SW. Within a few yards of the road we found nice tie depressions and off we went… For the first hundred yards, the RoW has been disturbed by the nearby stream. After that it evolves into very nice RoW, climbing a substantial grade up a hollow. These guys were determined to get somewhere, that’s for sure!

Eventually the grade intersects several roads at a local summit. Vince headed straight ahead out a forest road for a ways, reporting back that it seems like a likely continuation of the grade, but no firm evidence. I headed south on a similar road towards Winkleblech Mtn Rd, which could also have been grade.

We returned to Winkleblech Camp via the road the roughly parallels the grade (as shown below). At the end near the camp, it becomes very steep and there are some curious trenches paralleling the road. The trenches seems to aim for the area of the splash dam at the camp. There were probably several log slides in this area.

We next closely examined the dam. It sure looks like a splash dam. There are large, vintage timbers in the stream where it pierces the dam; would these not be surviving parts of the floodgates opened to cause “the splash”? On the north side of Stony Run Rd, it appears there is another log slide going up the hill.

Next we headed up Negro Hollow, since Kline implied RR in that direction. It’s a lovely hike along the stream (bears seem to like it), with some really pretty areas, but we could not conclusively find evidence of grade. Later consultation with maps suggests that the RR probably did not pass through the lower end of Negro Hollow (near Stony Run Rd), but entered farther NE.

It seems pretty likely that one of the roads around the Old Shingle Rd junction with Stony Run Rd is the grade which accessed Negro Hollow. Future investigation required!

Next we headed for Cinder Pile Spring. There we examined the surrounding areas. The pile of cinders directly in front of the spring seems to point to the grade being under the existing road.

Our final search was along Sheesly Run Rd. Once the hollow narrowed, we rapidly discovered some clear RoW alongside the road. Vince insisted (twist my arm) on following it upstream. As anticipated, it curved towards Cinder Pile Spring. Then at the last moment, it curved east! What the heck, folks? Probably we missed a switch to the west in all the Mtn Laurel; we’ll check it out again sometime. This is a pleasant little stretch of RoW, and we felt good to have added it to the survey.

Reviewing maps at home, Vince turned up “Hook Tram Trail” and “Negro Hollow Trail” (which seems like the probably rail route into NH) on the Bald Eagle State Forest map. Fifty Hikes in Central Pennsylvania (see “Resources” at right) also discusses a hike on railroad grades in the Hook Natural Area.

With a free January afternoon with temperatures near 40F, we decided to make a sojourn to the region around Woodward, PA, once logged by the Laurelton Lumber Co. and the short-lived Bishop Lumber Co. These roads are covered in chapter 2-5 of Ben Kline’s “Wild Catting” on the Mountain, book 2 in the series Logging Railroad Era of Lumbering in Pennsylvania. Technically, this is Bald Eagle State Forest, not part of our ‘Rothrock Railroad Re-survey’, but aren’t arbitrary limits made to be violated…?

We entered the region via Cemetary Rd off of Rt 45, just west of the village of Woodward. While a branch of the Bishop lines supposedly entered the Voneida [Von Neida] Run area, the road into that area is clearly marked Private Road. Thanks a bunch. So we headed NE along Pine Creek to the intersection at Whetstone Gap. This location seems to correspond nicely with the crossing of the Laurelton and Bishop lines shown on Kline’s map (p. 225).

Parking at the gravel pit by the intersection, we plowed into light undergrowth around several camps to the SE. Crossing swollen Pine Creek on a footbridge, I quickly found an interesting rocky ‘road’ paralleling Pine Creek on the south side and summoned Vince by radio. While much wider than we are accustomed to, it sure appeared to be rock roadbed, complete with faint tie cribs in places and distinct edges. We decided to follow it to the SW, where it intersects the road to the south along Stony Run. Total distance wasn’t much, but it obviously continued in the other direction as well. It appears the line probably followed the course of the road to the south, so that leaves a line parallel to Pine Creek to find, right? [foreshadowing]

We then went a ways south on the road and plunged into the woods to the SW, hoping to pick up the line continuing SW along Pine Creek. We found nothing interesting on the south side of the creek. Hmmm. Vince was daring and decided to find a natural way to cross the creek. I decided to return to the road bridge. I then headed SW along the north bank of the creek. Still nothing. Checking in with Vince via radio, we had a grand total of… nothing. We decided to head back onto the road.

Reaching the road, I decided to poke around “Camp Loco” (complete with steam locomotive on its sign). Heading north into Whetstone Gap along a small stream, I finally reached and climbed onto the road. Just as I did, I noticed a few interesting rocks. I gave Vince a call to come up and get me while I took a break. When he arrived, we examined my minor find. We determined it looked like a fairly good fragment just off of and parallel to the road into Whetstone Gap. Rather than map it, we decided to drive up the gap and get the lay of the land.

Going up the gap and curving to the NE, we noticed what might be RoW off to the right in a few places, but kept going. The road rapidly became quite steep. Steeper than seems reasonable for a railroad. Rats. At the top we decided to continue down the other side to the switchback in the road shown on the map. It seemed to correspond with the switchback shown on Kline’s railroad map, so why not check for a tail track?

At the switchback, I plunged off along a forest road, while Vince took the more logical course of trying the clearly marked (and ubiquitous) Mid State Trail. After a short distance, I crashed over to the MST to find Vince on some very nice rock RoW, thank you. We decided to map it, figuring the railroad’s switchback might be farther NE. Well it went, and went, and went a bit more. Eventually, we did notice a bit of RoW switching back alongside to our left. But Vince determined the line clearly continued, with more rock ballast, and some suspicious timbers in several wet areas. We continued ahead for a while and then decided to continue that direction on another day.

Returning to the previously-noted diverting track, we followed respectable RoW through moderate undergrowth until reaching a forest road we had crossed on the previous track. The RoW continued on the other side of the road, and we suspect this is the route through Stover Gap to Livonia and its enticingly-named “Railroad Creek”. But we decided to call it quits and check a few other places. We walked the forest road back up to the original track, and followed it back to the truck at the road’s switchback.

Heading back up the mountain, Vince halted just past a camp driveway near Horse Path Spring/Trail and backed up, stating: “You know, we really ought to check behind that camp…” I left him to go about it and after a few minutes he returned, tracking a path past me with the GPS. Hmmm. Sure enough, he’d found RoW right behind the camp, which continued to another blasted forest road. Could this explain how they crossed the steep portion on the other side of the mountain? Some course completely off Kline’s map?? We continued a short way up the main road, discovering an open gate leading onto the road to Wohlford Gap. Was this the forest road Vince had just encountered? We headed down it to find out. Sure enough, after a short distance it became obvious it was. So this rail line appears to have headed down towards Wohlford Gap, a situation not shown on Kline’s map… It seems unlikely this would help them get over the mountain, however, so we saved that lead for another day as well. [Vince has since concluded that his RoW behind this camp might be bogus. We will examine it again - ed.]

We headed back over the mountain to the SW. I wanted to look for a “ledge sort of thing” [technical term] I had seen on the north side of the road on the way up. There it is! Damned if it doesn’t look like some sort of RoW. It’s too narrow for a road, relatively level, and seems to ‘go’. We saved it for another day, but it might explain how they coped with the steep parts on the ascent (descent?) of this side.

Nearing the curve to the left in the gap, we stopped and checked the suspicious area we noted on the way up. Yep, clear RoW for a short distance just off the road. Is it possible this continued along the stream past the headwaters, then switchbacked up onto the top of the mountain? It looks plausible on the map, and more realistic than ascending the way the road does. Again, saved for another day.

Upon studying Kline’s book and map preparatory to writing up the day’s adventures, I realized I had misinterpreted the map. The crossing at Whetstone Gap was that of Bishop and Laurelton–two distinct entities. That means the construction of the N/S line might differ from that of the E/W line… But then why did the first line we found seem to swing from the E to the S…? That would be a Bishop-Laurelton connection, not impossible, but improbable. Might Laurelton have re-used part of Bishop’s RoW? We will have to go back and scrutinize that line and see exactly where it goes, that’s for sure!

All in all an interesting day, with lots of RoW within easy reach of Rts. 45 and 192, perfect for short breaks in winter weather.

[contributed by Vince]

Today’s objective was to record a track for previously identified grade sections along Pine Swamp Road to the southwest of Hubler Gap. We had probed the area on two separate occasions in weeks prior and confirmed the existence of rock roadbed in this area as indicated in Kline’s map. Earlier in the year, we had regarded the possibility of finding any significant construction in this region with considerable skepticism due to the difficult terrain and distance from the sawmill in Linden Hall. As it turns out, this outer extremity of the Linden Hall Lumber Co.’s railroad was a rather ambitious line extending from the head of Hubler Gap up through a tight hollow (i.e. many stream crossings) and reaching at least as far up as the power line clearing near the saddle between Rudy Ridge and Tussey Mountain.

Starting from that point and working down the hollow, I was able to record a 0.91 mile track with only a few minor gaps where the exact route has been obscured by time.  I concluded the day’s survey at a point between the first and second camps situated above the junction of Pine Swamp Road and Little Shingletown Road.  At this point, the roadbed appears to swing out onto the present-day Pine Swamp Rd and probably proceeds under the road to a point within Hubler Gap where it comes out from under the roadbed and joins up with the previously surveyed segment in this gap.

One of the highlights of this section are the numerous stream crossings, some of which still have timbers remaining from the crude bridges. One of these contains two very well-preserved parallel timbers with nicely flattened tops to which rail may once have been directly affixed.

It should also be noted that the presence of roadbed to the northeast of Hubler Gap along the Shingletown Branch was confirmed in the earlier probes of this area mentioned above. As of this date, no tracks have been recorded but a pair of parallel bridge timbers and a section of rocky fill have been identified.

Had occasion today to travel I-80 east of State College, through the region formerly occupied by the White Deer and Loganton Railroad. Since I am now perpetually scanning hillsides for signs of rocky right-of-ways, it wasn’t too hard to notice a nicely-preserved stretch of what’s probably the WD&L, just a few dozen feet off the passing lane of I-80! The scrap is on a steep hillside contained within the median, just before milepost 202 when eastbound. This location is in the ‘Sugar Run Narrows’ between the White Deer and New Columbia (US 15) exits. This will be a nice starting point when we eventually begin surveying the WD&L.

I’ll try to get a picture of this to post.

Pine Swamp Rd in Hubler Gap

Little Shingletown Rd in Hubler Gap

vicinity of Fleet Foot camp on Laurel Run Rd

Project Status

• daily contributions: 0 miles
• total: 30.85 miles
• daily contributions (under road): 0 miles
• total (under road): 18.63 miles
• grand total: 49.48 miles

With the cooperation of resident Mr Ralph Rockey, we were able to survey a small portion of what we believe to be the Linden Hall Lumber Company route from Galbraith Gap (behind Tussey Mountain ski area) to their mill at Linden Hall. This land has been sold and any traces will likely soon be destroyed under another residential “development” (from Hell).

Mr Rockey had two recollections from his father: (1) that the dinkey locomotives once “almost set the barn on fire”, and (2) that there was a cattle crossing arrangement where the railroad crossed a fence row. Assuming the barn is the present barn (which seems plausible), the route probably crossed Rt 45 and followed the present Rockey Rd, entering the farm’s driveway and curving around behind the barn to ascend the hill. At the top it would have had to make a fairly sharp turn to the left to match with our survey.

The area of his father’s “cattle crossing” recalled by Mr Rockey is indeed quite near where we found the SE end of what we believe to be the right of way.

At the NW end of our survey, the survey merges to a curiously-diagonal fence row which extends to the  former PRR railroad grade at a spot I had determined a likely location for the mill, based on scrutiny of Penn Pilot aerial photos from the late 1930s.

It’s frustrating that so much is left unknown about this route, and there is likely so little time before any clues are completely decimated! Such is the path of “progress”.

0.15 miles

[contributed by Vince]

Today’s objective was to see if we could make any progress in the Faust Flat area west of US 322. Back in July, we had tracked eastward from the headwaters of Potter Run but lost the roadbed on the western edge of Faust Flat where the terrain becomes flat, grassy, and a semi-swampy. Our renewed interest in this area was partly driven by the discovery of the line that comes through Stillhouse Hollow and over towards US 322 via the Boy Scout camp, which seemed likely to cross 322 and join up ith the line that comes into Faust Flat.

We decided to access the area from the 7 Mountains Campground off 322. The owner of the campground allowed us to park at the end of Underwood Rd and hike back the trail into Faust Flat. After hiking back the trail about 3/4 mile, we cut to the right and went north through Faust Flat to the area where we had previously lost the roadbed. Turning around and heading back northeast near the base of Sand Mountain, we resumed our search for roadbed. This effort was initially unsuccessful but, just past Smith Gap, good rocky roadbed appeared out of nowhere headed towards a crossing with 322. We were able to follow this for about 0.36 miles until we reached where the railroad crosses the old Route 322. At this point, the roadbed disappears into someone’s yard immediately before it would have passed under the 4 lanes of present-day US 322. The interesting remains of an old house and general store are located at the crossing with the old 322. At one point, the log trains must have crossed this early highway. We wondered what the crossing might have looked like and whether the trains would have passed by the general store and old house or if they were built after the trains stopped running.

It’s somewhat difficult to explain the apparent total lack of any visible roadbed for almost a 1/2 mile stretch across Faust Flat. We have to assume it’s a combination of the flat terrain and the fact that this privately owned land has obviously been pretty heavily logged in more recent times. There’s nothing like log skidders and bulldozers to wipe out the fragile remains of logging railroads. If the early railroad builders wanted to build up rock ballast, they would have had bring them in from elsewhere as Faust Flat contains little in the way of rocks either for clearing out of the way or building up roadbeds. Perhaps the chief method of construction through this area was timbers laid out directly on the ground, which would now be gone.

Before wrapping things up for the day, we did a bit of checking around on the opposite side of US 322 in an attempt to discern how the railroad might have connected to the roadbed below the Boy Scout pond. The first little stream course that crosses Sand Mountain Rd on the east side of 322 seems a likely candidate but this is all private land with several homes on the north side of Sand Mt. Road so we didn’t investigate very thoroughly. Most likely, the roadbed is under or nearby both of the ponds located in this area.

It’s also important to note that, by establishing a link between the lines on either side of 322 at the 7 Mountains Campground, it becomes almost certain that the northern tier of the Riechly’s loop was shown on the wrong side of Sand Mountain on Kline’s map and that there was never any railroad that went through the forestry nursery as indicated on his map. (We have done some probes in this area and found nothing.) It also rather drastically changes Kline’s depiction of the “grand loop” by putting Poe Mills at sort of a dead end for a train coming from Milroy since it appears that any lines extending up Big Poe Creek from today’s Poe Valley State Park would not have connected with anything west of 322 as Kline suggests. In fact, we have yet to locate any actual roadbed or tramroad upstream of Poe Valley State Park [it is a difficult area to survey due to an overabundance of busy camps -ed.].

Survey in the vicinity of Seven Mts Camp

Relationship between previously-surveyed Sand Mtn area (left), present Seven Mtns Camp area (second from left) and Stillhouse Hollow area (center).

Project Status

• daily contributions: 0.36 miles
• total: 30.85 miles
• daily contributions (under road): 0 miles
• total (under road): 18.63 miles
• grand total: 49.48 miles

Pine Swamp tram

Poe Valley pieces

Poe Valley under road

Project Status

• daily contributions: 0.97 miles
• total: 30.49 miles
• daily contributions (under road): 1.25 miles
• total (under road): 18.63 miles
• grand total: 49.12 miles

Diamond Valley RR

Scrap along road

Project Status

• daily contributions: 1.03 miles
• total: 29.52 miles
• daily contributions (under road): 0 miles
• total (under road): 17.38 miles
• grand total: 46.90 miles